I wanted to include a section on this website that is most definitely an excerpt from my paradigm. I reference my paradigm for three reasons. First, as I’ve stated many times already, I occupy a unique position. I am not involved with the saddlebred industry, yet I purchased a saddlebred with express intention to compete in traditional sporthorse disciplines. That means that I will be campaigning a breed which is regularly dismissed by the individuals that comprise the group within which I am participating.
Second, in many ways I represent a phantom market for saddlebreds. I say ‘phantom’ because there are individuals who are already willing to look at “types” of horses, instead of breeds, but there are much greater numbers of individuals who would be open to sport type saddlebreds if they were presented with the right information.
Finally, I like to think that I offer a relatively unbiased opinion. Sure, I love my horse, but I’m also in many ways his biggest critic. This is not because he is a saddlebred, but instead due to the fact that I have specific goals, and I am only able to own one horse at this point in my life. Truthfully, I believe that I am unbiased because I look for type. I also have no dog in any fight. I’m not a breeder of sporthorses or saddlebreds, nor am I a professional competitor of sporthorses or saddlebreds. I am, however, quite the observer, which means that I take note of trends, issues, and groups of action and opinion.
These three characteristics of my situation put me in an interesting position when it comes to saddlebreds. Obviously, I make no claim of being an expert on the breed. That said, I don’t really think “expert knowledge” is needed to notice trends in two markets which really should overlap (for their own benefit), but they don’t.
I will speak about the sport horse world first, since it is what I am most familiar with. When I use the term “sporthorse world”, I’m referring to the disciplines of eventing, jumping, and dressage. To discuss the history of each would be exhaustive, so I will instead generalize the most important aspects of each sport. Basically, the same “type” of horse is needed to excel in either three disciplines. Small changes are ideally made on the template of this type which allows each horse to truly excel in each discipline. Examples of these changes include, but are not limited to, a higher point of shoulder and/or perhaps a slightly straight shoulder in a jumper, a lower stifle placement in an eventer, or a more upright neck set in a dressage horse. All horses must be balanced and have a skeletal structure which predisposes them to soundness and efficient production and use of energy.
The average buyer today does not have the funds to manage the price that, say, a warmblood (imported or not) would call for. I’d like to use myself, again, as a perfect example of this. It seems that because I don’t have the ability to look at five figure (plus) horses, I am often not taken seriously, or my goals aren’t believed to be sincere or challenging. I know there are many individuals out there who are serious riders, with serious competition goals, and limited budgets.
In addition to the financial chasm within the market, a specialization of breeding has occurred in the “go to” breed of choice – the thoroughbred. Sadly, the racing industry in the United States has opted to create more downhill horses, with lighter bone, and with smaller and more brittle feet. These are not traits that suggest the ability to compete in mid levels and beyond. To further complicate matters, thoroughbreds are not for everyone. In fact, I would argue that warmbloods are not for everyone as well.
So, to recap a very simplified and watered down discussion thus far, the correct type that is needed for mid to upper level sporthorse competition is either unobtainable financially to the majority of riders and this type is being removed from the breeds traditionally accessible to this group of riders all together. It is also worth mentioning that alternative breeds (ex: quarter horses, appaloosas, morgans, paints, etc) are also becoming specialized, thereby reducing their already small ratio of participation in the sports. More often than not, specialization orients various breeds away from the type that is needed for these sports. Oftentimes, it causes a modern example of a breed to only remotely resemble its more versatile predecessor. It is my belief that the impact of specialization upon the amateur owner market is best evidenced by the increasing popularity of crossed horses. The buyer is seeking the lost type needed, by turning to crosses; a crossed breed horse offers the opportunity to obtain the characteristics lost in specialized breeding. Furthermore it’s no coincidence that, generally speaking, the dollar tends to go further in this portion of the market.
Now, in turning to the saddlebred industry I’ve noticed some interesting things. First, it appears that the great majority of the industry (this includes breeders, owners, competitors, trainers, and even publications) are geared towards saddleseat and breed shows. Again, this is a direct result of specialization. Also, there appears to be a huge chasm in pricing amongst saddlebreds. It is not unusual to find six figure horses, and it appears that the upper five digit prices are considered low to mid level. As is with some other disciplines, like hunters and jumpers, there is certainly a level of “elitism” that takes place in the competitive levels of saddleseat which is undoubtedly a cause of this pricing scheme. This elitism however, does not explain the “other” end of the market, the end of the market where saddlebreds (some with impeccable papers) go for less than $500. I’ve discovered that these horses are the culls from the saddleseat driven program. Often, they don’t “trot”, meaning they don’t lift their knees up to their eyes, an exaggerated movement which is favored in saddleseat.
All breed industries take part in some amount of reprehensible behavior, and certainly the saddleseat world is not exempt. This culling of their stock, in my opinion, is one example of a poor choice in the industry. My first question was “why don’t they market the horses to people who actually enjoy a flatter mover?”. I’m yet to really receive an answer to this; however I have drawn some conclusions. In my wanderings, I ran across evidence of a two year old gelding that was found in a west coast auction known to attract kill buyers. This horse was separated from his papers. His papers were eventually tracked down by the person who won him for around $150. It became clear that he was by one of the top stallions and out of a quality mare. More importantly, he was off of one of the largest farms on the east coast. Why was he separated from his papers? Why was he dumped so far away? Why did he go for so little? I am forced to speculate that it was the desire of the breeder to cut the colt’s ties from the success of the farm because he didn’t “trot”. This is only one example of something that undoubtedly happens very often. The records representing sales from Tattersalls, the most respected saddlebred sale in the country, show a similar story. No, the horses were not separated from their papers, but the horses that couldn’t “trot” were most certainly devalued by their industry, selling for prices often falling under $1,000, representing only a fraction of the winning bids given to horses with greater action.
As I’ve already mentioned, I’m not sure why the saddlebred industry has painted themselves into a corner. As I see it, they produce X number of horses annually. They pride themselves on catering to the most extreme movement, the most animated horse, and continually raise expectations for what they deem the most elite representations of the breed (truly, I don’t hold this against them, as it is the basic nature of competition). Sadly though, their aim for such a standard – one that relies on the reproduction of exact, and often extreme, conformation – eliminates a huge majority of the available horses on the ground. What’s most confusing though is that, unlike a properly run business, they have no outlet for this ‘excess product’. Instead, the industry seems to view these horses as expendable losses, and actually put effort into removing them from the scene (as opposed to effort given to finding an appropriate niche). The final troubling aspect of the saddlebred industry is in direct relation to this lack of an appropriate niche: those that comprise the industry appear to be fully unaware of what the outside market (people like me) want, how they think, how to market to them, and how their breed is perceived. The result is a complete gap between the two groups.
Some individuals have managed to bridge this gap, from either side. The numbers aren’t great. Moreover, it appears as though the industry doesn’t put much belief behind their proclamation of the saddlebred as a versatile horse. I see two problems with this. First, it seems as though their projected level of success in alternative disciplines doesn’t reach past low level competition. Second, it seems as though those horses that have truly succeeded outside of the industry are perceived as random and individualized successes. Furthermore, it is my experience that there has not been a widely accepted consensus connecting the industry’s byproduct (their “culls”) and a “type” that is demanded by another buyer, in another corner of the market.
So, for the purposes of this article, the “Plight of the Saddlebred” speaks directly towards the burden the individual horses bear when they are not of the quality sought for within the saddlebred industry. They truly do represent a horse that, if marketed correctly, would most definitely be purchased by members of an outside market. This is especially true if the horses are bred from lines that predispose them for sport (and yes, there are a few select breeders in the country who do breed for sport, not for saddleseat). Saddlebreds possess an intelligence that truly sets them apart from other breeds. They are also extremely willing and people oriented, which makes them a much better match for many riders. Furthermore, when they are built to sport type, they are amazing athletes with the average ability to be strong competitors in the mid levels of competition at the least.
The problem lies, however, in getting the horses into the hands of the buyers… and there you have it. Two markets who would benefit so greatly from acknowledging one another’s existence. The sporthorse crowd needs to understand what a saddlebred truly has to offer. The saddlebred industry needs to do right by their byproducts, and market them effectively to the sporthorse crowd. I feel that this is most definitely the responsibility of individual breeders, and the industry as a whole. The saddlebred community must recognize the poor reputation that they have amidst the greater equine community, they must work to correct the misinformation surrounding the most basic aspects of their breed, and they must work to understand Until then, the saddlebred will truly suffer under this plight, which is just one of many that the breed is forced to bear.
For anyone who has actually made it to the end of this entry, let me say “Good for you!”. Second, I’d like to state that discussion is welcome. This is a sensitive subject for many, and my blog is not intended to alienate any group. Instead, it’s designed to educate and inform for the sake of the breed, and future sporthorse buyers.
Good post. There was a similar (or should I say a few similar) discussion(s) on Trot.org fairly recently about this same topic. I think there are two major barriers to get past with this issue. First is the ASHA, which is only recently starting to promote and recognize some of the alternate disciplines (meaning sport, western, hunt seat, dressage, trail riding, etc). In the traditional show ring, we are seeing a few more western and hunter classes are being added for those “culls” that are still competitive show horses, just not in the saddle seat ring. We need more support and opportunities from ASHA though, because there are a lot of horses out there who would excel at the hunt seat discipline. However, the participation has not been great, and I’m not sure whether this is because people don’t want to do hunt seat or western or they think that is a lower class event, or what the reasons are. I think a possible part of the reason is that the ASHA basically neglects the hunt seat discipline- there is no hunt seat at the world’s championship show, and very limited or none at the big regional competitions- so beyond local ASB shows, what’s the reward for competing your ASB in hunt seat at breed shows if you can never compete at “the top”??
You will also notice that stallions are not allowed in pleasure classes, and in part due to this and in part due to the above, we have no stallions that are being marketed and hunter or western pleasure horses, therefore we do not breed specifically for these disciplines (read: we as a breed organization are not putting any effort into improving our breed’s abilities in these disciplines). We do have a few sport horse stallions I believe, but of course the ASHA will have nothing to do with them other than giving them papers.
The second major barrier, I think, is the public perspective. How many people have you talked to that believe Saddlebreds are crazy? A lot, I would bet. I think the public view is slowly changing, and I certainly advocate for the breed as much as possible. My 3-yr-old colt has already changed a lot of minds at my stable about Saddlebreds- as far as talent, athleticism, versatility, willingness, and of course personality. But then again, my colt is not currently “IN” the specific niche of the saddle seat world at this time, so he IS being exposed to the public. I think it takes more of this, and it’s hard to do both public promotion and breed show competition when most Saddlebred owners board and train and only show with other Saddlebreds. The public opinion can be changed, we just need more breed advocates out there like you and so many more Saddlebred owners persuing “alternative” disciplines with their horses. Keep up the good work, you and Elvis are doing the breed proud!
-Leah
Excellent post!
Please keep them coming!
I’m so glad you are enjoying the blog!
I think there are a number of us who are beginning to look at the saddlebred as a clear option for our next sporthorse. My sport is dressage, so anything I have to say will reflect that.
I have no connection with the ASB industry. I just know that ANY breed has within it the capacity to produce competitive dressage horses. We have to recognize that in any breed, the great ones are rare, and in a breed that has not been specifically focused on breeding for dressage (or jumping), the great ones are even rarer. I think that if we want to produce saddlebred horses for sport we have to make specific selection for the characterisitic that allow a horse to develop correctly.
Every breed organization has developed the same pattern of specialization that the ASB organization has. Quarterhorses have a hunter type (which in my opinion, is not the horse you want to ride to a fence). They have a halter type, a pleasure type, a reining/cutting type. And the smart breeder is not likely to breed his halter mare to a cutting horse. It’ll take generation to get offspring from this cross that will fit in the either the Halter box or the Reining box.
There are lines within the saddlebred breed that produce a structure that would be useful in the development of a dressage horse. There are some saddlebred shoulders that are world class. There are some toplines on some of the older lines that should make for uncomplicated backs. There are some necks that are set on perfectly for the balance we require of a great dressage horse. I want to believe that there are some hind quarters that can produce a great motor, powerful carrying capacity as opposed to hocks that just go up and down. If we want to produce horses that have perceived value in the sporthorse market, we have to make conscious breeding decisions that will give predictability to our product. Otherwise saddlebred sporthorses will be accidental finds with a fair amount of risk of success.
I ridden only about three saddlebreds in my life, none of which were real prospects, but I know there are some individuals out there that want that job. And I figure any breed that can produce a fire-breathing saddleseat horse that can fly around the ring and take care of some nine year old kid probably has a relative that can take care of a 62 year old man who doesn’t bounce so good any more.
Thanks for the space.
Hi Jim, thanks for the well thought out post! I hope this is just the first of many of your contributions!
I agree that specialization can be the bane of a breed’s existence, however I don’t think that all breeds buy into extreme specialization as many others have, instead holding to a “type’ as opposed to a ‘skill’. Comparing the Saddlebred to the American Quarter Horse makes me sad in the heart though… I think they are one of the best examples of what overspecialization can do to a breed. Wasn’t the breed prided on being “all around”? It seems that now they can only claim to be “all around” because they have so many various extremes. (not trying to knock the QH, just being observant)
I think that more saddlebreds that are already on the ground can be turned into great sport horses. I agree with you that the chances of finding one who can compete at the top levels of any discipline such as dressage, jumping, or eventing will be lesser without specific breeding goals. I would argue though that the average “reject” could excel farther into the discipline than many other horses, provided portions of it’s anatomy haven’t been sacrificed for specialized goals. Elvis’s breeder bred along a sport format, but in all honesty she didn’t have to breed for that many generations before she produced what I think are great candidates for at least the mid levels of many sport disciplines, and likely higher. The ability is there, simmering under the surface.
… just think how awesome they could be if a concerted effort was made to return the breed to it’s origins!
I’m so happy that you are giving the saddlebred a chance, and I have absolute faith that you will not only find a horse who has the conformation to reach your goals, but the personality that outshines all other horses you’ve ever known.
Bravo! You and I think alike and if the Saddlebred breeders changed their “thought pattern” and bred for athleticism, they could produce champions in many disciplines. A good athlete is a good athlete is a good athlete. Get the hell out of the damn show ring and live in the real world. Only 10 percent of the saddlebreds are good enough for green shavings. Only maybe 25 percent of the saddlebred owner population WANT to be there. There is 75% of the rest of us who WANT to do something else and NOT because we aren’t good enough, but because only riding around a ring is boring as all HELL!
Jean and my one and only
Miss Edith Ann Rivers,
American Saddlebred Sporthorse
As an owner of a saddlebred, that does not compete in any of the traditional saddlebred shows, I can say that I believe them to be a wonderfully versatile bread with wonderful intelligence and compassion. I spend most of my time on the trail (including deep mud, rocky hills, roads, bridges, etc) and my saddlebred will do it all.. he is the steady trail horse that takes the lead when other horses do not want to go first over, under or by that scary object. We do compete very successfully locally in speed events which he also excels at.
For those that believe that saddlebreds are crazy (and I have run into these people) I think they have seen mishandled saddlebreds, as they are sensitive and require training that does not including bulling. If I could spend any amount of money on a horse it would be another saddlebred!
And I agree about the riding around a ring as BORING!! I love having a horse that I can do it all including trail riding, gaming, mounted orienteering, parades, just to name a few.
JoAnn
For those of us not ready for a (very) young horse – it is not easy to find a Saddlebred built for AND well started in regular english disciplines. When I was shopping I found exactly 1, on the other side of the country, 1 other possibility with an unknown past – still an overnight trip, and a cross who I did make an overnight trip to see. Loved, vetted, unfortunately came up lame before shipping for trial.
It seems the hunter/dressage/sporthorse classes in breed shows do not have the same goals as regular hunter/dressage/sporthorse training. As a committed amateur on a budget, I just can not take the risk of a lucky find or a complete retraining project. There is a Saddlebred in my future, but likely not until I’m ready to bite the bullet and take on a young horse.
Erica
Erica, I completely understand your dilemma; you face the same obstacle that so many people who would be likely ‘cross overs’ face. First, it’s difficult enough finding a true sport type saddlebred. A major peeve of mine is seeing these specialized saddlebreds who just didn’t cut it in the ring being marketed for sport, simply because they weren’t going to be world-beaters in saddleseat. They still have many of the conformational hallmarks of saddleseat specialization that work entirely against every other form of equestrian sport.
So, once you actually locate a true sport prospect, there is the likelihood that it was not bred specifically for sport. At this juncture the breeder may or may not pursue a traditional sport education (which, for the record, is one of the most low cost ventures as it entails basic ground work and then throwing them in a field for a few years).
There are a few places that I think start them with, at the least, a sport-esq foundation. It may still be loosely based on the saddleseat ring, but no major “head set” training has occurred.
Or… you could just take the leap and get a 3-4yo who has a few years with that training, look for one with a tractable nature, and retrain. I think that you could have a different horse within 6 months to a year, if you get the right combination of personality and conformation.
Anyway, the point of this long winded and likely wandering post (I stopped and started about three times as I was interrupted) is to let you know that you aren’t alone.. loads of other people are in the same pickle! I certainly was! My personal solution was to spend years learning conformation and movement as best I could. It was something I started as a child, but about four years ago I really started to dig deeper and deeper, to understand the bio-mechanics of the horse. I’m certainly no expert, but I’m confident enough now to look at a horse and know pretty quickly what they would excel at, and what their weaknesses are. I am always on a very tight budget, and I can’t afford to make mistakes. I ended up deciding on Elvis after seeing a few really unattractive photos of him in a winter coat, and one or two 30 second videos of him slipping and sliding around in the Wisconsin snow. If I can do it, anyone can!
Will likely be doing what you are doing in a few years – making my own! Thanks for the encouragement and posting this blog.
Check out americansaddlebreddressage.com to read Harry Callahan’s story.
Lisa, Harry Callahan’s story was one of the first ones I found (actually on the website you mentioned, I believe) when I was first considering purchasing a saddlebred. It is a very inspiring story! I think that there are more “Harry Callahans” out there than we realize, they just need their moment to shine. Just think about what the breed could accomplish with true sport oriented breeding goals!
I enjoyed reading this blog as I am in the same situation with my Saddlebred/past saddlebreds. Coming from a dressage-sporthorse background, I never dreamed of owning a Saddlebred sporthorse. Then I became good friends with someone who brought saddleseat Saddlebreds to my neighborhood. At the time I was riding other folks horses because my children were small and I couldn’t handle the responsibility of horse ownership and babies. I schooled one of her saddleseat horses in basic dressage and conditioned her for a competitive drive (which we won). What blew me over was this breeds ‘try to please’ attitude ,comfortable gaits, foward energy,intelligence and athleticism. When I was able to own a horse again I chose a Saddlebred . I have competed successfully in open dressage, driving, and combined training competitions over the past 14 years with my Saddlebreds. I have participated in clinics with some of the best instructors including Lendon Grey, Henk Van Bergman, Eric Horgan, Cathy Conelly, Sharon Schniedman, Holly Mason, Joy Congdon and others. All of them truely enjoyed working with me and my horses . One huntseat instructor who hopped up and rode my last horse, Sequoia, was so impressed that she commented, ” everyone should have one of these” So once Saddlebreds get into the hands of amature sporthorse competitors like myself, professionals and other amatures will take notice. Especially in today’s economy. Our horses are affordable. If you own a talented Saddlebred, show him/her. Go to clinics with your horses. Last week I participated in a clinic with Sharon Schniedman. I rode my new four year old, Mojo. All the other horses in the clinic were warmbloods. Sharon told me that he has a 10 walk and canter and an 8 trot. She loved his motor and temperment. I had no idea how talented he was! Mojo’s breeder sold him to me because he didn’t have the pizzazz that she wants in her saddleseat horses. I told her she’s doing a great job breeding sporthorses. She should be encouraged to breed more just like him. It’s too bad that the ASHA doesn’t give Sport Horse awards to the breeders of ASBs that excel in those disciplines. As for finding sporthorse type Saddlebreds, I would go with a young horse that hasn’t had much training . If he is a people oriented horse, with a sensible temperment, training will be so much easier than having to retrain a horse with a saddleseat background. From my experience, they are not that hard to find. On the selfish side, I kind of like the fact that most people aren’t shopping for ASB sporthorses. Then I couldn’t afford one:) -Sandy R
As a life-long amateur-owner-trainer of several Saddleseat-type Saddlebreds, I can honestly say that in my opinion there is nothing quite like riding a “show” Saddlebred. That being said, I do think that there needs to be more aggressive marketing for the horses that while they aren’t going to be “show” horses, they could have a wonderful future in the sport-horse divisions. I’ve ridden warmbloods and QH’s (and please, please, don’t get me started on how wrong QH’s dragging their heads on the ground is), and in my opinion they are nice enough horses, but they just didn’t seem to have the intelligence, willingness to please, or level of athleticism that I expect having grown up with Saddlebreds. I also love that you don’t need all that flopping and jerking you see in dressage to get the same kind of movement with a Saddlebred ;p
My show Saddlebreds do trails, bounding up hills, over bridges, and (with one exception, because heaven forbid my 17.2-hand big baby get has dainty little feet wet ;p ) bounce through streams with the same “yay, lets do it!” attitude that they bring to the show ring. It just kills me though every time people look at me like I’m a three-headed freak riding something that is sure to turn into a fire-breathing-dragon any second just because I ride Saddlebreds.
We need to be much more vocal as a breed community in promoting our horses, not just as show-ring-prospects, but as sport-horse-prospects as well. It’s going to be one heck of a battle though, because of the reputation Saddlebred horses have in the sport-horse community. So many sport-horse trainers won’t touch an ASB with a ten-foot pole, whereas by the same measure many Saddlebred trainers don’t want hunter-pleasure Saddlebreds in their barns.
I love Saddlebreds, and I love the specialization required to compete at the highest levels, but I agree that we are pigeon-holeing ourselves out of existance as a breed.
I have 2 ASAB’s that are full brothers my hope is that they will become a pair for carriage driving.They are both going under saddle and in harness as singles and I will probably hook them together in the spring.Their sire was a CH Fine Harness horse and their dam a undefeated 3 Gaited horse.My point being you don’t need to look at just the sport horse stallions or mares to find good sport horses in the breed.Since I ride also I had them up at Ann Gupteil’s and she was a little negative about them until she saw them.Her comment was “We can sure make a Dressage horse out of that one!”What alot of people don’t understand is that you need that reach first to make a good show horse.We just want the reach for combined Driving or Dressage.Alot of time the show industry thinks we want a 2nd class horse for our sport bcause it is not a show horse.We need one that is better because we put more demands on them.I have found this in the Morgans too.I had one trainer ask me why I did not show my Morgan instead of Carriage driving.He said that horse is an atelete.That is probably why he was a sucessful Combined driving horse.His parents were both show horses also.Just my thoughts glad to know there are others out there.Cynthia Bliven
Enjoy the blog and this discussion very much. May I offer a perspective of about half a century? The Saddlebred world is undergoing a transformation similar to what the Arabian horse breed in US underwent starting about 25 years ago. When I was showing my Arabian stallion (as a junior rider) at both Arabian shows and in open competition – under old AHSA rules a junior could not show a stallion in junior-to-ride classes except in the breed division so if we wanted to jump we had to suck it up and head for the open classes) – I can tell you that first there were only two of us in the Pacific NW doing this in jumping and in dressage and oh lordy lordy what really evil snarking comments we had to face including from judges. At the breed shows we had to sponsor our over fences or hunter under saddle classes and dressage classes too. In some cases if we wanted dressage classes at the Arabian shows we had to sponsor an entire division and pay for separate judges, too, and we could count on being stuck at the back of beyond at the show grounds and even, for the over-fences classes, furnishing our own warm-up jumps! Yet – look at these divisions in Arabians now. From the Fifties, Sixties and Seventies in the US when there were no English riders except saddleseat, to today’s full complement of hunt, dressage and jump classes…it does take time and it does take cooperative show managers but it can happen and it will.
What is very upsetting to me still as it was in my former “Arabian days” was that breeders would cull in extremely unpleasant and often unethical ways if they didn’t get the Open English or National-level halter candidates. I can see this in other breeds and I still see it in Arabians and I see it in the American Saddlebreds. It is part of the win at any price mentality. Winning equals money, sometimes BIG money. Until the welfare of the horse is put first, legislatively if necessary, this will continue. Yes, I have rescued and rehomed but I am not wealthy and most of us who have one-on-one rescued and rehomed whatever breed know perfectly well what goes on, and why it goes on. My belief is the problem has to reach critical mass and when the tipping point is that the welfare of the horse becomes MORE important than the money, that’s when things will change.
Just one woman’s opinion.
Well said Sarah. The Arabian National Sport Horse program and show is a huge success and something we should emulate.
Breeders are still culling their horses and pulling their registrations etc. and sending them off to auctions etc.
I am afraid there will always be those of us who love our horses and want the best for them and those who ride their ego at the expense of the horse.
Hi – As a life long lover of the American Saddlebred, both as a breeder owner and exhibitor, I’ve enjoyed reading both the blog and the comments. I’m quite sympathetic to promoting my beloved ASBs as they athletes they truly are.
I’ve raised several nice saddle seat show horses (1 reserve world champion, a couple National Sweepstakes champions etc) but I am just as proud of the beautiful ASB gelding out of my former show mare who went on to be a dressage horse…in GERMANY.
BTW, not everyone in the ASB world thinks a cast-off saddle seat prospect is automatically going to be a prime sport horse prospect. A bad horse is a bad horse for any discipline requiring athleticism. (And do not think for a moment that top saddle seat ASBs are not “athletes”.)
We still have much education to do within our breed, and frankly, due to the fact that breeders need a market for their 2 and 3 years olds (prime market ages for saddle seat prospects) and that sport horse buyers want older horses, I see that gap as part of the difficulty.
I’d also defend many of our ASB saddle seat trainers as some of the best horseman in the country. However, very few of these folks have had much exposure to the sport horse world and I do understand how far apart those worlds seem at times.
Also, sorry to be a “nag”, but as an editor I feel I must point out that the breed is American Saddlebred (capitalized please!) and saddle seat is two words. Unless huntseat or stockseat suddenly became single words while I wasn’t looking
Claire, I’m happy to hear that you enjoy the blog and comments, and congratulations on getting your gelding into a dressage home. Perhaps you could share how you did this? I know there are readers who feel lost as to how to market their non breed show horses for alternative disciplines on the open circuits.
I hope you didn’t misunderstand my latest blog posting; I did not intend to imply that “everyone” within the saddlebred industry believed that horses who didn’t make it in the saddlebred show ring were ideal sport prospects. I was merely providing an illustration of the general perception that one in my position (and there are many of “us”) is left with when they get various ‘sport type’ ASBs sent their way at the mere mention of looking for one. It’s pretty disheartening when a good portion of them are the rejects of the industry, and it doesn’t “feel good” to people like me to have to pass on them because they have no place (and to be extra clear, I’m by no means saying that all cast-offs are unlikely to succeed in alternative disciplines).
I’d also like to address the point you made about saddle seat horses are not “athletes”. I did not say that. What I said, in that posting, was that an insinuation was made that sport horses (meaning those that compete in dressage, eventing, show jumping, and CDE) were not athletes, simply because any random cast off of the industry is apparently suddenly of the type needed for these disciplines. I then supported my argument by stating that these sport disciplines are the ones that have been chosen by an international governing body to be represented in the highest form of non-professional international competition. I provided this fact as a legitimization of the fact that ‘sport type’ isn’t just a label pasted on willy nilly. Furthermore, I don’t feel comfortable implying that the cast offs who don’t make it in the saddle seat world or sport world are ‘bad horses’. It’s not their fault.
Also, I’ll have to respectfully disagree that all sport horse buyers want older horses. This isn’t the case. It’s actually a very common thing for amateur owners such as myself to take on 2-4 year olds as prospects. Sure, it’s a more difficult sell if the horses aren’t from proven parents in sport disciplines, but it’s not impossible. The sport crowd is much more ‘DIY’, and a lot of them have the competence to take a chance on a prospect based off of it’s type and movement. It does require more work on the breeder’s part though.. a lot more work, and work that is to be done outside of their comfort zone if they are to pull in total strangers from other disciplines. I can assure you though that there are many individuals, like myself, who are looking for the best value for their dollar and who are ‘type-ists’ before being ‘breedists’ (for lack of better terms).
As far as grammar goes, that is a discussion that I’ll opt to forgo in this reply. I apologize for using the term ‘saddleseat’. I’ve seen it before, and it must have stuck with me. I’ll amend myself and from now on use ‘saddle seat’. Also, I was unaware that ‘Saddlebred’ must be capitalized when unaccompanied from the ‘American’ prefix – one which I always capitalize. I guess that’s my ‘sport nature’ though seeing the saddlebred as a traditional type, and therefore using the term interchangeably. I can’t promise any changes there.
I sincerely thank you again for your comments. I’m just thrilled to see that people are not only enjoying the blog, but that it’s starting discussion of any and all things. That’s the most important part of our community as equestrians – sharing our ideas and knowledge, right? It’s our responsibility I believe, as horsemen, to work towards a unified whole… it’s all for the betterment of the horse, is it not?
ps: your URL didn’t work! You might want to check on that, and let me know if it was just on my end and it is working. I’m looking at starting an additional ‘links’ section on the blog (among other things.. I really should get moving)!
There are some valid reasons why saddlebreds aren’t started out “generic” english. I have a Saddlebred who wasn’t started as a show horse and developed a lower head carriage. It has been a bear getting her head up. The simple fact is that show horse trainers aren’t any better at looking past the current horse to its potential than sport horse trainers. So if a breeder is going to start his horses, he’ll start them with their heads up, as most of his potential buyers want to see.
There are alot of Saddlebreds that obviously won’t make it as a serious show horse from the time they hit the ground. Unfortunately, a good many of those should have never been bred for to begin with!
PS. I’ve typed “saddleseat” many times too.
Hi Ann, Welcome!
I completely understand that a professional trainer will produce a horse with the characteristics that their target market wants to see. Hence, saddle seat saddlebreds with the characteristic outline (I say body shape because I hate the term/concept of a ‘head set’, and think it’s misleading. The body dictates where the head is, and the body outline of a saddle seat horse dictates that it head would be held close to vertical.) are produced by those marketing them to the demands within the industry.
That said, I disagree with you regarding the general notion that sport horse breeders/trainers/riders can’t look past the horse in front of them to see the potential beneath. This may not be a central point to your argument, but I wanted to address it because I think it’s an important one. Sport horse people have their fair share if ignorance and lack of education. However, those who seek the knowledge know very much what they want from a structural standpoint. I’ve found conformation to be one of the most regularly discussed, and debated, topics amongst intelligent sport horse people. On average, I find that this group of people has a better level of general knowledge (and strong ideas) about the proper structure for their horses than many other groups of horse people. Furthermore, the idea of conformation isn’t limited to producing one movement or look, but instead the conformation affects the physical ability of the horse to meet a greater number of demands, so the desired conformation is whole-horse based.
I believe what one would perceive as a dismissive attitude by sport people towards the attitude is actually due to perception. Scouts honor, from the outside most people only ever see a saddlebred exhibiting everything that is saddle seat. They’ve also seen that saddle seat has demanded specific conformation from the breed. This conformation speaks to no other discipline. Furthermore, they only ever see images of saddlebreds being crazed in the ring. No hunter or dressage rider wants that in the ring, and no eventer or show jumper wants that on course. The sport world is reacting to the image they are presented with, and it’s hard for them to see much else since the ASB industry is so breed-centered in insular. It’s been my experience that, once shown a traditional saddlebred (or even a less traditional one who has the propensity to change shape through conditioning), sport people see things that they really like, from the structure to the ‘mind’. It’s hard for them to take the plunge though, because ‘these kinds’ of SBs appear difficult to find to those of use on the outside… and how hard are these people expected to have to look?
I can’t really speak for the saddlebred trainer component of this statement you made, but I tend to agree there. This is only because it’s my opinion that, generally speaking, only the first 1/4 (the trotting part) of the horse is important when it comes to conformational selection within the SB industry.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head though with responsible breeding. I don’t know what the right answer is.. I certainly don’t think that horses who aren’t destined to be ss show horses shouldn’t be bred (I prefer the ones who wouldn’t excel in the ss ring!), but I think that numbers should seriously be looked at. If the saddleseat standards are so exacting for that winning look, so much so that hundreds of horses can be bred with only four or five actually “making it”, then an industry wide reevaluation needs to take place. This is especially the case since the saddlebred industry hasn’t made any productive efforts/headway in creating and sustaining an alternative market. Those left over horses are the only losers, and they are losing big.
Thanks for your thoughts on this topic – I hope you stick around and continue to contribute!
“This is only because it’s my opinion that, generally speaking, only the first 1/4 (the trotting part) of the horse is important when it comes to conformational selection within the SB industry”
Speaking as an individual who has been immersed in the Saddlebred industry since I started riding at age 8, this isn’t entirely true. While the first 1/4 of the horse’s conformation is often indicative of their trotting ability, the rest plays an equally important part. True, the angle that the neck meets the shoulders, the slope of the shoulders, length of the arm, elbow placement, withers, and depth of the barrel and chest are crucial in determining a horse’s ability to use it’s body, but the structure of the hindquarters is highly important as well. A high quality Saddlebred, taught to correctly carry itsself for show purposes, actually carries its weight in a 60/40 ratio. This is to say that 60% of the horse’s weight is carried and propelled forward by the hindquarters, with the remaining 40% of the trot coming from the front end. The result is a “speedboat” effect: squatting and driving behind allows for the extreme action up front. A horse with a croup that is too flat, hocks too high or low, or femurs set at more upright angles has a greater difficulty driving from behind and conversely, are typically less successful in the show ring. A horse with a hind end built as described above is also less likely to “gait” successfully, as the slow gait and rack require long reaching strides with the horse’s hind end.
I’ve loved your blog so far by the way, as it definately highlights the Saddlebred’s un-tapped potential to excel in divisions other than saddleseat. This coming from a “type snob” such as myself is big step forward haha. I love the breed and showing a horse as highly athletic and talented as a Saddlebred provides a thrill that not many get the chance to properly experience. I wish more who are critics of the sport saying it’s “boring to ride in a circle” would have the opportunity to ride a high caliber show horse before they get this notion embedded in their minds. True it’s not for everybody, but after riding a true show horse, it would be hard to say that it isn’t challenging or demanding and most definately is not boring. I have a healthy respect for the sporthorse disciplines and all that they entail and I wouldn’t mind trying it out once or twice to really see what the draw is. I’m highly unlikely to convert, but I agree wholehartedly that the people Saddlebred world would benefit tremendously from opening their minds to the possibilities for the horses who are not suited for the show ring. Whether it is as a sporthorse, a school horse, a trail horse, an endurance horse, or just a companion to love, the Saddlebred has immense potential outside of its original purpose.
Hi from Australia.
I am an avid American Saddlebred fan and breeder. I have just finished reading all your messages and think it is just fantastic that all this is being talked about from various different perspectives.
I personally breed my Saddlebreds specifically with sporthorse characteristics in mind. I have 2 homebred 2yo’s presently at the trainers being prepared for entry level dressage and later eventing. I have proudly sold stock to superior sporthorse homes.
But things are very different here in Australia. We do not have any saddle seat classes here at all, in fact we have very few classes for Saddlebreds in general at all.
Even so, there is alot of bias against the breed from people ignorant to what they are really all about.
The breed has sadly pretty much stagnated here for various reasons. Australia wide we have maybe 400 registered Saddlebreds. Many others would have been lost to the registries due to indifference.
I do however, think that the time for change has well and truly come, and for this reason I am planning a National Championships Saddlebred show for 2011. It will have the usual halter events, but also dressage, showjumping, western and freestyle events.All with National Australian Championship titles. After the show I will be presenting statistics on those horses producing the sporthorse winners.
We are really aiming to show the general public here in Australia, what the Saddlebreds are capable of.Perhaps this could form a model for overseas. Lets see how that works when the time comes. It will have plenty of media exposure.
I am thinking now perhaps that the next step from this blog is to exert pressure on the Association to make the changes necessary to start the ball rolling in getting more recognition for these sporthorse disciplines. We need the sporthorse classes/dressage tests etc as part of the big shows. If it needs an extra day of showing, so be it, if it needs our group of people discussing things here, to sponsor these classes, so be it.
We need recognition for BHF (Broodmare Hall of Fame) mares to come from these disciplines also. Breeders should be proud to advertise stallions capable of producing successful sporthorses.
We need to get groups of people riding Saddlebreds in these disciplines to combine group adverts in the Saddlebred magazines to even out the myriad saddle seat adverts.
If we need to partition the Association to get these things achieved, then I am sure we will have the support from what I have read here and on other forums to get this done also.
The industry is hurting, global economy issues worldwide are not helping, but we need to help ourselves out as well as our beloved breed, to get it out there about what these wonderful horses are truley capable of, and that is certainly NOT just saddle seat show horses.
Lets unite and get things achieved together.
Thanks Tania for your post. It made my day!
When the time comes please let me know the classes you will be offering so we can maybe implement them here in the Northeast, U.S.A.